Antenna advice for Low VHF channel

morty

DTVUSA Jr. Member
#1
I am seeking some advice on an antenna to help me get KHAS channel 5 which is one of the few stations that broadcast in low vhf. I currently have a damage Chinese rotating antenna on my roof which I am ready to replace. Actually I am only using rabbit ears right now and am getting all the channels in the area except KHAS on 5 so am I right in thinking all I need is a good low vhf antenna?

Also, does the coax cabling type matter, such as using RG6 Quad vs RG6 or solid copper vs copper coated steel?

Please let me know what you think or if you need more information.

SEE LINK BELOW FOR MY TVFOOL INFORMATION

TV Fool
 

dkreichen1968

Moderator
Staff member
#2
Hi Morty,

Welcome to DTVUSA. I grew up in Arthur County Nebraska, my mother was from Sumner, and she graduated from Kearny State College (A.K.A. UNK, Go Antelopes). Also, my cousin was the American Baptist pastor in Kearny back in the 1980's. Anyway, since your in the green and white on TVfool, I'll recommend one of these two antennas pointed toward 95 degrees from magnetic north.

Winegard HD7000R VHF/UHF/FM DTV TV Antenna (HD-7000R) - Winegard - HD-7000R - Antennas&sku=
AntennaCraft AC9 Low Profile VHF UHF FM HD Antenna (AC9) - AntennaCraft - AC9 - 716079000765 Antennas&sku=716079000765

If you get a VHF/UHF combo, you will have all your signals on the same line. Any quality RG6 cable should work great. Tape the joints to keep moisture out and be sure to ground the mast and the cable (ground the cable using a grounding block just before the cable enters the house).
 

Fringe Reception

Super Moderator, Chief Content Editor
Staff member
#3
:welcome: Morty,

To begin, low-band VHF television is very prone to receive interference from man-made noises such as fluorescent light ballasts, electric motors like your kitchen blender or a neighbor's air conditioner, etc., so I propose a very inexpensive test to see if you have enough signal versus noise to allow reception of channel 5. If you find 'noise interference' you may be able to track the sources down and eliminate them, before you continue with permanent antenna plans.

I am an experimenter and I'm shooting from the hip on this one, but why not! Any "conventual" low-band television antenna is going to be VERY large but since your station is LOS, I have a wild idea.

The transmitter is located at 100 degrees almost due east to you. Does your home have an outdoor wall that 'broadsides' that direction? I'm thinking about building a simple half-wave folded-dipole wire antenna, cut to that channel. Half of the people on the Forum will think I'm nuts to suggest this, but the Ham Radio operators here will understand the simplicity of the test I propose.

All outside TV antennas that were designed (compromised) to work on low band-high band VHF are now considered to be obsolete, as there are very few low band VHF stations remaining. This is not to say a VHF-high band/UHF combo antenna might be the answer for you, but I suggest you try a simple test and if it works, you could use a far smaller antenna for the rest of your channels and combine my 'plan' with a smaller UHF antenna. Here we go:

This link---> http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/get-cfr.cgi?TITLE=47&PART=73&SECTION=603&YEAR=2002&TYPE=TEXT shows channel 5 spans 76-82 mHz, so your design frequency should be 79 mHz.

This link ---> http://www.angelfire.com/mb/amandx/dipole.html determines the length of a dipole antenna.

For 79 mHz, you would need a little over 12 feet of wire: I prefer stranded bare copper, but anything would work for a simple test (possibly all you need)! The actual lengths are 5.92 feet in overall length, 2.96 feet per half. Now you see, a dedicated channel 5 'conventual' rooftop antenna would have to be be a six-foot-wide monster.

The second link (above) pictures from left to right shows a ceramic or plastic insulator, a quarter-wavelength section of wire, a center insulator where the coaxial feedline is attached, a second length of wire cut to the same length as the first one, and a third insulator. This could be fabricated in a few minutes and it would cost virtually nothing to try. Test this horizontally.

Regarding coaxial cable, there are big differences between brands. A local Engineer tested several brands and he determined Radio Shack coax is leaky and lossy: next, be certain to use black-jacketed coax rather than white as it resists ultra-violet (sun) rays far better than other colors. Preferred are commercially installed coaxial fittings (factory cut 25/50/75/100 foot lengths) unless you have the proper tools to install fittings.

Regarding grounding your antenna mast, there are posts here on the Forum (search grounding) that illustrate why a simple 'Radio Shack' coaxial grounding block is not considered to be enough for safety and they do not meet National Code. Once you are satisfied with your antenna setup, be sure to waterproof all of the coaxial fittings using RTV or a similar product.

Jim
 
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dkreichen1968

Moderator
Staff member
#4
My parents are stuck trying to pull in KNOP, North Platte (RF2) from 48 miles away. Fun, fun, :)

And, I need to add, that in Nebraska low VHF is very much alive. RF 2,5,and 6. Since I live in Colorado, I don't have to deal with it for myself, but it is a very real issue in Nebraska.
 
Last edited:

morty

DTVUSA Jr. Member
#5
Hi Morty,

Welcome to DTVUSA. I grew up in Arthur County Nebraska, my mother was from Sumner, and she graduated from Kearny State College (A.K.A. UNK, Go Antelopes). Also, my cousin was the American Baptist pastor in Kearny back in the 1980's. Anyway, since your in the green and white on TVfool, I'll recommend one of these two antennas pointed toward 95 degrees from magnetic north.

Winegard HD7000R VHF/UHF/FM DTV TV Antenna (HD-7000R) - Winegard - HD-7000R - Antennas&sku=
AntennaCraft AC9 Low Profile VHF UHF FM HD Antenna (AC9) - AntennaCraft - AC9 - 716079000765 Antennas&sku=716079000765

If you get a VHF/UHF combo, you will have all your signals on the same line. Any quality RG6 cable should work great. Tape the joints to keep moisture out and be sure to ground the mast and the cable (ground the cable using a grounding block just before the cable enters the house).
My father grew up near Sumner too. I was born and raised in BBow and now live near Kearney. I really appreciate you and "Jim in Seattle" taking the time to help me out. After reading both posts I think I will try my luck with one of the antennas suggested instead of doing the wire test. I don't have any bare copper wire and would have to buy some. My thinking is I know I can get the UHF channels pretty easy with rabbit ears and I need a new antenna anyway. I have been without satellite or cable for around 10 years now and if I can't get KHAS, I will survive.

I will follow up with my results hopefully within the week.
 

morty

DTVUSA Jr. Member
#7
I do know who he is. As a matter of fact, he is shirttail relation to my wife. 4th cousin or something like that. Her grandma and RP dad were 1st cousins. Sorry for the public genealogy lesson, but I can't PM yet.
 

dkreichen1968

Moderator
Staff member
#8
So, we're related through the T.V. antenna. I remember my dad talking about being related to RP and Beth with one of RP's relatives, and something about one of RP's horse trades, and them deciding they were related through the horse. ;-)
 
G

Guest

Guest
#12
ABC reception for Philly area

Hi,
Can you suggest a good outdoor antenna that receives low-VHF. I live in the Philadelphia , PA area less than 3 miles from our local ABC channel towers (which broadcast in VHF) and I get horrible ABC reception using an indoor attic amplified antenna.

Thanks,
Bill
 

Fringe Reception

Super Moderator, Chief Content Editor
Staff member
#13
Bill,

Sorry for the late reply. Please post the resulting link (URL) to your free antenna survey for us to study: TV Fool Use your address and antenna height at the highest that is reasonable for your location. That link will automatically conceal your personal info.

Jim
 
G

Guest

Guest
#14
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=51342bdf8732ad

I am also a Philly area, though much further west of the last poster. I am looking to cut the cord from cable and just started my research into either a rooftop or attic mounted antenna. Above is my zip code based URL. I have looked at the Channel Master 4228HD but wondered why they did not include the VHF low-band (channels 2-6).


Bill,

Sorry for the late reply. Please post the resulting link (URL) to your free antenna survey for us to study: TV Fool Use your address and antenna height at the highest that is reasonable for your location. That link will automatically conceal your personal info.

Jim
 
#15
There are so few areas of the country where low band VHF signals are currently being transmitted, that manufactures do not find it profitable to market the large antennas that are sometimes needed to receive low band VHF signals. The Channel Master 4228HD is a UHF antenna that will receive some strong high VHF signals.
Channel Master is one of the few companies that still sells antennas that are built to receive low VHF signals. They still offer a line of all band low/high VHF/UHF antennas.
 
K

Kenneth Cole

Guest
#17
My parents are stuck trying to pull in KNOP, North Platte (RF2) from 48 miles away. Fun, fun, :)

And, I need to add, that in Nebraska low VHF is very much alive. RF 2,5,and 6. Since I live in Colorado, I don't have to deal with it for myself, but it is a very real issue in Nebraska.
In Nebraska use a Winegrud 8200u,outdoor hi&low band Vhf&uhf.?with a channel master 7777amp!!!
 

pjs344

DTVUSA Rookie
#18
Most indoor (flat panel and similar. Not rabbit ears) and outdoor antennas do not cover the Lo VHF Band (2-6 / 54-88 MHz) Some claim that they do but if you look at the specs you will find that they only have the HI VHF 7-13 / 174-216 MHz and UHF 14-36 / 470-602+ MHz bands listed. With the down fall of Radio shack and Antennacraft that made a variety of good TV antennas all we have left is Winegard and Channelmaster that make antennas that cover the low vhf band. Both brands offer a number of directional outdoor antennas and Winegard offers one mobile omni-directional antenna. Antennas with Lo VHF: Channelmaster CM3016-20. Winegards HD7000R, HD8200U, Sensar GS 1100,2200 and Metrostar 360HD antenna. There are smaller companies and non-brand names that may cover the Lo VHF band. Since most stores and websites do not provide antenna specs you will need to go to the company’s website to check the specs for Lo VHF on their antennas.

I have one station on RF2 in Las Vegas and I use an older 2012 flat saucer shaped Winegard Metrostar 2000 antenna that works great in the house with the transmitters being less the 24 miles away. The antenna is not near any window and sits on top of my 8ft bookcase. It came with the amp. But I removed it because it did not make much difference in TV signal reception being so close to the transmitters. I believe you can still buy the older Metrostar 2000 online for less the new version. The only difference is that the newer Metrostar 360HD version is smaller and is more dome shaped then the older 2000 model. The older 2000 model is rated for 45 miles and the new model is rated for 35 miles.

For the beginner wanting ota TV. First see where your station transmitters are located in your area at Rabbitears.info (the most up to date site). Go to TV query and put in your nearest city/town, state, Auth Type: Licenses and search. It will give you a list of stations that you can get in your City or Town. Then you can click on the TV symbol to get each stations ID (call sign) and stations location. Click on each stations ID and you will see all the networks and channels they have. Click on technical data and you will see transmitter info. You may see the name of the location of the transmitter with location coordinates near the bottom. If you click on the blue Channel XX number or the tower symbol next to it you will see the transmitters location on a map with a signal coverage radius outlined in rad. Upper right you have map choices including sat view and you can zoom to see the location and all the transmitters at that location. Some transmitters may have station ID bubbles near them. You can do this with all the stations listed to see if there are transmitters/translators in the same or different locations. This will help in knowing if you need an omni-directional or directional antenna(s)for your location to get all the stations you want. If you click on translator data you can see all the translators and their locations used by the TV station at the bottom of the page. Station owner and operator. From there you can go also go to TVfool.org and click on stations that you can get. Put in your address, zip and click on find locals. From there it will give you transmitter direction and distance from your location to help point your antenna. Both sites will help you. But TVfool, Antennaweb, AntennaPoint are lacking updates and translator data, stations IDs, channels, networks may be missing or incorrect. Beware sites like Channelmaster link with these sites for their station look up help. When using Antennaweb and AntennaPoint for suburb, rural and mountain areas you may not see any TV station translators (a low power transmitter with same programing as the TV stations high-power transmitter) show up in the receivable TV station list because they have little or no translator data. So, you may have TV translators in your area and not know it because these sites gave you no TV stations transmitters in your area. If you live in a suburb, rural or mountain area you should use Rabbitears.info because it has the latest translator data and if you have any translators it will show on the list of TV stations for your location.
 
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