We are diluting our Objective Status

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EscapeVelocity

Moderator, , Webmaster of EV's Antenna Blog
#21
Fine, its obvious Im not liked here.

Im out.

Piggie ran 1inxs and cowbowup4christ out too. I wont be the first. However I will be the first that was actually run out in Stalinist fashion.

I didnt start a thread to complain about other posters, and then make ridiculous ultimatums. But its a popularity contest, not legal procedings.

Ive had my say.

I will gather up my things, shortly.
 
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Trip

Moderator, Webmaster of Rabbit Ears
Staff member
#22
You're not even trying to be diplomatic.

You drag politics into everything for reasons I cannot comprehend. I hate to break it to you, but the people here simply don't want to hear it. Very rarely do I bring up politics because this is a forum about antennas and digital TV discussion. Politics has almost nothing to do with it. In the rare case that it does, there are far less inflammatory terms you can use.

You complain above about the "New Left" making everything political, but the only person I've observed to drag politics into an antenna discussion here is you. Which is to say instead of trying to be better than you perceive them to be, you're using the "well they're doing it so I can too" argument to justify dragging it into a place where nobody else is doing so.

No one's trying to run you off. They're just sick and tired of hearing they're "Marxists" or whatever uncalled for term you come up with every time they disagree with you. Or even hearing it for no particular reason.

I don't really know what else to tell you.

- Trip
 

EscapeVelocity

Moderator, , Webmaster of EV's Antenna Blog
#23
Diplomatic?

Good Lord!

It wasnt me that created this climate and attacked other posters, impugning their motives and questioning their impartialitiy. Then throwing down a me or them gauntlet.

If you check my posts, I rarely mention politics. But that really isnt the point, is it?

If you look at Piggie's, Im leaving thread....you will see that it is he who cant put up with the occassional political opinion, however he can shove his political opinions as regards antenna manufacturers down everyone's throat, by getting all huffy, when someone doesnt toe his political line that Winegard and AntennaCraft are the only companies that should have their products recommended here.

To the point where we are now.

Intolerance of others viewpoints destroys the objectivity of this site. Not fully disclosed associations with companies or products.

I never attacked Piggie for his bias towards those companies. His biases are fairly well known, though newcomers may not know them. But opinions are like arseholes, everybody has one. The objectivity of the site is degraded when opinions that differ from the Super Moderator arent tolerated. As we can see unfolding right now. Piggie's bias with regard to Winegard and AntennaCraft is political....and has nothing to do with the objective merits of particular products as regards succssful prescriptions for people seeking helps needs....but rather where they are manufacturered.

As I said, Im fine with that. Its not me that has the problem. I didnt start a thread attacking other posters and questioning their motives or how their political opinions or business/financial affiliations affect their objectivity.

Check my last 100 posts and you will see little to no negativity and I have recommended my antenna 1 or 2 times.

The whole thing is a farce.
 
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Orrymain

, Blogger: Orry's Orations
#25
Escape, Trip is absolutely correct. You've brought politics up in just about every post of yours that I've read. That is not the case with Piggie, or with anyone else. Now you've said you're going to go, but it sure likes like you're still here, so it's a bit like the pot calling the kettle black. It's a shame that you can't be more tolerant of other views and that you can't respect the boundaries of this forum. This was a fun place, a hopping place during the DTV transition. Now it's just a place where people argue, and that's a tragedy.
 

EscapeVelocity

Moderator, , Webmaster of EV's Antenna Blog
#26
Got the message Orryman. Sorry Ive lingered. I put the new websites off for a minute. I get back on them.

Sorry, I have been such a downer for everyone here. Of course I dont see it the same way, but as I said, this isnt a legal proceeding.

ASAP, Ill be a ghost around here.
 

Piggie

Super Moderator
#27
This is the facade the US lives in now. That economics is political. Well it is if you consider both parties are totally controlled by the same corporations and people.

The Chinamerica economic coalition is not sustainable. The vendor can't keep lending the customer money to buy more of the vendors goods even if the vendor devalues their dollars to keep the game going as long as possible. China's economy is recovery faster than ours. Ours is still headed toward a second worse recession in the next year or two.

So heck yeah, I am prejudice to anything we can still buy from the west (not just the US).

The facade is both sides are playing the music the masses want to hear while giving the action to a select few that fund the system.

Anyone that believes listening to Glen Beck or Barack Obama will lead them down a rosy path needs to look at the facts. Neither of them are interested in a better American for those that make under 100 million a year.

By the time the music really stops playing it's going to be way too late, regardless which side of the politic side show you think is correct.
 
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Piggie

Super Moderator
#28
And I will gladly give up mod status is a heart beat if that means I don't have to walk on egg shells about what I post, which I made a decision being asked back by even PMs on AVS that I will not walk on egg shells. If some other mod then bans me from here, I will not loose a minute of sleepin, wonderin bout the way things might have been...
 

FOX TV

Contributor
#29
This is the facade the US lives in now. That economics is political. Well it is if you consider both parties are totally controlled by the same corporations and people.

The Chinamerica economic coalition is not sustainable. The vendor can't keep lending the customer money to buy more of the vendors goods even if the vendor devalues their dollars to keep the game going as long as possible. China's economy is recovery faster than ours. Ours is still headed toward a second worse recession in the next year or two.

So heck yeah, I am prejudice to anything we can still buy from the west (not just the US).

The facade is both sides are playing the music the masses want to hear while giving the action to a select few that fund the system.

Anyone that believes listening to Glen Beck or Barack Obama will lead them down a rosy path needs to look at the facts. Neither of them are interested in a better American for those that make under 100 million a year.

By the time the music really stops playing it's going to be way too late, regardless which side of the politic side show you think is correct.

I learned my lesson about being political on the AVS forum, and that is why I started posting on here. I am not interested in political arguments, and to disregard the Clear Stream antennas just because you do not agree with their production methods that a vast majority of American Companies also employ is not fair to all of the Newbies who come her for help from the "Experts".

I don't agree with the direction this country is headed in myself, as I work for a living, and I do not approve of the "Spread the Wealth, even if you did not earn it" attitude of the current administration. I view myself as "Conservative" too, but this forum can benefit from the well designed Clear Stream antennas that I have personally proven to myself without a doubt that they work in very difficult reception areas, and they have been the difference between no reception and great reception for quite a few viewers in my area.

In case you did not know, the NAB (National Association of Broadcasters) actually endorses the Clear Stream antennas themselves and helped fund their development. I am not aware of all of the details, but the NAB is the voice of virtually all American TV broadcasters in this country with the FCC and Congress. When the NAB speaks, Broadcasters and politicians alike listen to what they have to say.

They are only interested in supporting Broadcasters and saving OTA broadcasting from emerging and threatening technologies that want to take the DTV spectrum for themselves, since OTA broadcasters "Do not have to pay for their spectrum" like Cell phone and broad banders do. On the other hand, they pay a small pittance for a limited public resource for obscene private profits, so who is actually the bad guy here since they provide no "Public Service" except for 911 emergency capability, but they did not do that on their own, they were forced to do so by the FED.

Once the DTV spectrum is given away to other technologies for private profit, what happens to those who cannot afford Broadband service, or in some cases cannot even afford a computer. Do we make second class citizens out of them because of their financial condition. and leave them behind when an emergency arises such a 9,11,2001? Leave the politics for the political blogs, of which there must be thousands of on the internet right now, and I am sure you can find one that parallels your political view points with ease.

The Clear Stream Antennas are innovative, and can they help people solve reception problems in many cases which I have proven to myself beyond a shadow of a doubt. END OF MY POLITICAL OPINIONS ON THIS FORUM !! :doh:
 

JER

DTVUSA Member
#30
@FoxTV - Thanks for your note on the usefulness of the Clearstream antennas for solving reception problems. I do however want to clear up a few misconceptions in your post above.

1. The NAB did NOT fund development of any aspect of any of the current Clearstream antennas. The entire effort was funded internally by Antennas Direct.

2. The NAB did provide funding to Antennas Direct to develop of a reference design for an indoor smart antenna based on the CEA909A standard. This antenna is not available as a commercial product at this time due to market issues that are beyond the control of Antennas Direct and NAB.

3. While I know for a fact that there are individuals within NAB that use and like the Clearstream antennas, to the best of my knowledge the NAB organisation has NOT issued any public endorsement of the Clearstream antennas.

Again, I appreciate your posts validating the Clearstream antennas in your market, and I look forward to future interactions on technical topics discussing antennas and solving reception issues.

Best Wishes to all!
 

FOX TV

Contributor
#31
The "China Connection" and Clearstream Antennas again !!

@FoxTV - Thanks for your note on the usefulness of the Clearstream antennas for solving reception problems. I do however want to clear up a few misconceptions in your post above.

1. The NAB did NOT fund development of any aspect of any of the current Clearstream antennas. The entire effort was funded internally by Antennas Direct.

2. The NAB did provide funding to Antennas Direct to develop of a reference design for an indoor smart antenna based on the CEA909A standard. This antenna is not available as a commercial product at this time due to market issues that are beyond the control of Antennas Direct and NAB.

3. While I know for a fact that there are individuals within NAB that use and like the Clearstream antennas, to the best of my knowledge the NAB organisation has NOT issued any public endorsement of the Clearstream antennas.

Again, I appreciate your posts validating the Clearstream antennas in your market, and I look forward to future interactions on technical topics discussing antennas and solving reception issues.

Best Wishes to all!
Hello again, I also stated that I was not aware of all of the NAB details. That statement was based on my misunderstanding of what Richard told me when I met him early last year. I must have misunderstood what he said. If I have mis-spoken about the involvement of the NAB, I am man enough to admit I was wrong, so...I admit I was wrong.

I don't understand why everyone has a problem with the Clear Stream antennas solely because they are made in China. I will bet anyone on here that all of the computers that they use to post on here have a majority of Chinese produced components in them. There is no way to get around the "China Connection" in today's world. I am a genuine Flag Waving American too, and I despise the "China Connection" as much as anyone else, but there is no way to avoid it.

The design of the Clear Stream antenna is "Very innovative", and I have proved to myself that they are capable of solving reception problems in troublesome reception areas. Here is a good example of a reception Horror story I was recently involved in.

I got a call from a viewer about 4 months ago stating that he could not receive any of the 4 UHF transmitters located on a 4,000 foot mountain top, only about 15 miles from his residence. His TVFOOL plot showed a 2 edge obstruction, and signal levels in the -75 to -80 range. He has just erected a "100 mile" fringe antenna, brand unknown. His home was surrounded by mountains on 3 sides located in a hollow. His antenna was a behemoth yagi combo with at least an 8 foot boom length. It was brand new with new RG 6 cable too.

He could only receive 1 VHF channel on 3, and no UHF channels at all. On the initial visit, I erected a C2 on a 20 foot mast pole and started receiving the channels he was trying to receive. His antenna was mounted at least 40 feet in the air on an older 2.5 story farm house (2 floors and a walk in in attic). Now with A C2 at 20 feet, I still had some break up, but that proved the signals were there.

I told him that we needed to get the antenna up higher, and he found someone to climb for him (The same guy who installed the behemoth antenna). This time I brought a C4 and the climber took a C4 up with him and hooked it up to the existing RG 6 and set it on top of the chimney and I went inside and did a channel scan, and all of the channels he could not receive on the behemoth yagi, now came in rock solid with no drop outs.

The viewer was very happy, and took all of the information he needed to buy a C4 on the internet (He was elderly, and his son ordered it for him). I called him several weeks later to see if he had it installed, and he was as happy as a bull in a "China Shop" with the new digital TV he could now receive.

Our station runs news at 10:00 PM, and he always watched the news and then got ready for bed after the news was over. That was the reason he called our station, because he always watched our news, and then went to bed. He missed our station the most, and now we earned a loyal viewer by helping him solve his reception issues using the Clear Stream antennas. Since his behemoth could not see the UHF signals, I advised him to get an antenna combiner and leave the behemoth installed to so he could get the low and high VHF channels in this area also.

On last note to consider is that my Transport Stream analyzer showed echos that were almost as strong as the main lobe at over 80 Microseconds out in time, and the Clear Stream antenna would still receive the signals that the Yagi would not.

I am not endorsed or compensated in any way by them as some might think. I am just a common ordinary Broadcast Engineer, who knows a good innovative antenna design when I see one, and to chastise them and denounce their products because of the "China Connection", goes against the grain of why this forum exists in the first place.

And yes, my posts are rather long, but that happens when you are a published author, and feel the need to explain something in detail so everyone understands things as clear as possible. THE CLEAR STREAM ANTENNAS ROCK, AND I DON'T CARE WHERE THEY ARE MADE, and neither did the Gentleman who's reception issues the innovative antenna design of the Clear Stream antennas solved.
 

FOX TV

Contributor
#32
Fine, its obvious Im not liked here.

Im out.

Piggie ran 1inxs and cowbowup4christ out too. I wont be the first. However I will be the first that was actually run out in Stalinist fashion.

I didnt start a thread to complain about other posters, and then make ridiculous ultimatums. But its a popularity contest, not legal procedings.

Ive had my say.

I will gather up my things, shortly.
I am not defending any position one way or the other, but It is so easy to be a thorn in someones side, and for someone to do that to you also. I quit posting on my local AVS antenna forum for a similar reason. There were just to many people on there who were critical of my posts, or my stations lack of full time HD content. Some of them did not appreciate my posts because they thought they knew more than I did, and always had a smart a__ comment about some of the opinions I posted there. I spent almost an entire day deleting every single post I ever put on that forum.

I got tired of all of the negativity there, and now that forum is almost dead compared to what it used to be. I got well over 7 PM's that wished me well, and said that they missed my input, but I refuse to post there again due to all of the malcontent that existed there, and it looks like it is starting here too. Like Rodney King said so well.."Why can't we just all get along?"

EscapeVelocity, I don't think you will be happy to leave here if you truly enjoy helping people. I miss posting on my local AVS forum, and that is why I came here. Please stay, but consider everyone's feelings when you post, and try to stay on topic. I have found it much easier to be appreciated when I think twice on how my posts are worded.

I don't like the direction this country in headed in either, but I have found that this is not the place for politics in general. It is hard not to inject political opinions, because politics has and does play a role in DTV broadcasting, and I could write pages upon pages on my political opinions about DTV, but I would just put myself in the same boat as my local AVS forum that I abandoned a few months ago.
 
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Piggie

Super Moderator
#33
Amazing. After spending hundreds of hours here free helping people. In the end. People show up. I feel there is a conflict of interest between helping people and selling their own antennas.

I get accused of getting away with things I have moderated, but then again, I accepted that day would come being a mod.

Apparently everything is political, because if I mention the economy it's political.

Pretty much I am just here helping Jay kill spam and watch the board. Lord knows the next time I suggest an antenna model, then I will be doing the same thing, though I don't get a penny.

The best thing to do is go out in the middle of the afternoon and find a place that serves breakfast all day.


Here is a list of don't mention it for me.

1) no politics, this includes economy that is not controlled a single bit by the politicians.

2) can't suggest antennas any more without being a hypocrite

3) I get to sign on and read abusive personal comments about myself. But if I reply I am a hypocrite.

All this to help people doing volunteer work. That was my mistake in the beginning.

I never in a million years figured by getting into helping people with TV antennas, in the end I would be considered the villain and the demise of a forum.

Totally amazing.....

Thank God I get to go to work in the morning and have fun.
 
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